In the left corner CSS in the right Flash

I don't like the use of flash on websites. It's limitting to your viewers. It's ok for banners or maybe streaming video but I don't like it for actual design and basic functionality. That's just my opinion though.

Someone I am talking to about my curent CSS site that everyone has been so helpful with showed me these templates. They do look good, but I dont' know how hard they are to modify etc. What I don't like is that I find them to be too busy, and I have a personal ungrounded hatred for sound on websites.


Flash templates

Those are quite impressive templates I must say

I like flash sites.. but only for certain purposes.. like sites for big Hollywood movies are usually in Flash... because they have to kind of bring you into the Movie and be interactive and show you clips and appeal to your senses more than your brain

But most sites look rather childish if they are made in Flash...

I'm not saying that Flash is a no-no. I'm just saying that Flash, for professional sites, must be used appropriately, and useability must be taken into serious consideration. Not everyone has Flash, not everyone likes Flash, not everyone has a computer that can load things quickly, not everyone has a decent monitor.

I especially don't like sites that are made in Flash but only have two pages. That exaggerates the sense of "All Show and no substance"

so.... it's a great tool for certain purposes... when used wisely for the right purpose it can be amazing. otherwise it can be disabling for your site.

Flush the Flash in my opinion.

From what I have seen of your site and expertise, I recommend you stick with (X)HTML/CSS. Flash is great and all that, but it requires a whole raft of new skills for you to learn. Vector drawing, typography, animation and use of the timeline is difficult enough, but you will end up looking into actionscripting to add functionality, and to be honest, if you don't plan to offer any of those services to prospective clients, why bother trying to build the showboat?

Study the CSS. It is a far more usefull and applicable skill.

—pd—

I was thinking right along those lines. If I build a flash site, people will want me to build them flash sites. I can do design work, but I am really a developer at heart, or at least as far as web stuff goes at any rate. It's funny how what I am hearing here very much reflects my initial thoughts. With the exception of Rastin of course. I think those templates look pretty good too, but those are not the skills I expect to be selling, so I dont' think I should advertise with them

F

You're, kidding. Oh god, tell me you're kidding. I'm not going to offend anyone by saying something rude. I'm merely going to point you to a place called template monster, take a look at some of the flash stuff that they have there. I'll openly admit that I hated flash when it came out, but now with ActionScript 2.0 (the code used by flash) it has incredible power. ActionScript 2.0 is an almost truly OOPL. AS3 will be truly OO. There are people who can do things in flash that are totally beyond comprehension. I can't believe someone would compare the two. They're not even on the same playing field. That would be like comparing raw HTML to C. I wouldn't exclude CSS, actually I use them both, why not? You can actually use CSS in Flash. So instead of complaining that CSS is better than, why not just develop in flash, and use CSS inside of it? Then you get the best of both worlds!

You're right... you can't compare CSS and Flash - they are two completely different things... BUT... Flash is still not the ideal tool for creating a website, not because there is a deficiency really with FLASH, but because there is a deficiency with everybody else's internet speed, computer memory, and monitor.

Yes, you can build "simple" and "clean" websites in Flash too, but Flash is not yet universal.

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On 8/16/2006 1:38:01 PM, kulpreet_singh wrote:

You're right... you can't compare CSS and Flash - they are two completely different things... BUT... Flash is still not the ideal tool for creating a website, not because there is a deficiency really with FLASH, but because there is a deficiency with everybody else's internet speed, computer memory, and monitor.
Yes, you can build "simple" and "clean" websites in Flash too, but Flash is not yet universal.
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Just go to the link, check out the flash templates. Unless of course you have a "deficiency", in which case I understand. If you were really on the ball you could almost create a site and use both technologies hand in hand. I'm trying to rack my brain for a site that implements this sort of ideom, but I can't quite.... oh wait, what's that, scroll to the top of the page. See that little button that says "flash" ? Oh sorry, maybe yours says "html".... The concept I'm trying to get across is impression. If your site is unique, somewhat fun to use, and visually stunning, then it really doesn't matter what you use. People aren't going to blame your website, if their computers have "deficiencies".

I think using one or onother depends on who is the public for your page. I like both technologies but I preffer CSS.

I think the bottom line is, almost all Flash sites even have a "static" or "HTML" version - why? Because most people prefer the HTML version, and the HTML version is more accessible to more people.

I have worked in Flash for almost two years, and have taken five courses in Flash and Actionscript. I understand the power and value that it has. However, it is not equally universal as HTML.

I think I should have added a vs php in here too, cuz that is what I am most concerned about with FLASH. Now before I go further ... I haven't done anyehting with flash, so I need a great deal of enlightenment. The big question I have is, can you incorperate back end db/dynamic content into a flash site? You can do this easily with css and php/jsp/choose your scripting language of choice .... jsp being my fav, but can you do this as easily with Action script?

F

yes.

Flash integrates with pretty much all of the internet technologies out there: PHP, XML, CSS, SQL(through PHP)... It is ideal for creating dynamic sites, however I will admit that it takes much more skill and possibly time to develop this stuff. I will say that it is definetely better for RIA's (Rich Internet Applications) because it can store information very securely and give results without having to whiteout to a new screen (which may not always load properly for one reason or another).

My two cents...
Anders

...

the reloading problem can be solved with js if I am not mistaken - this is a little tricky but it can be done - I think by running php scripts though js. I would have to ask my coworker who wrote that script how it works. Inspite of that though, flash is graphically way nicer than css style stuff from what I have seen. Isn't flash proprietary though - it is owned my macromedia. What are the legal ramifications of that? PHP is open source. I know that Zend corp works it behind the scenes - but I am just curious what the deal is with flash.

F

I always say:- If you are building a normal website then use Flash (if you must) same way as macromedia ( a.k.a. Adobe ) uses it on there website. Its there technology see how they use it.

Flash is good if you are showing video or some dynamic graphics or some simple game ( for complex game use java instead, some very simple games can be done using just AJAX).

Soon IE 7 is going to be out so there will be a better CSS support in it. Opera and FF already has good css support.

Some people disable Flash in there browsers.
My laptop's fan immediately kicks the moment I load any flash page.
Flash doesn't make anything secure. You can always download the .swf file and decompile it using free decompilers.

Flash is good for sites like youtube, google video, maps (google, yahoo, msn), movie websites, museum sites etc.

ActionScript is not as easy and straightforward as you might think. In flash there is a concept of timelines, layers, levels.

To use flash or not... that is the question.

The answer lies in your target market, it's that simple.

I still think there are places for good use of Flash on the web. Check this out:
For example try shopping by color

Etsy.com

Rastin

Good actionscript can accomplish enormous feats. Flash can be fully integrated in databases etc .... It is also an amazing platform for CD development and completely out does Director in this regard. As well XML thrives in the flash/actionscript environment.

The problem being it is an incredibly powerful platform used poorly to often. Checkout our latest Flash offering, done by Seann in our studio, WestCoast Fishing Club - an Adobe site if the day winner. The weather section is a great example of Flash / XML integration.

Cheers!
James
creative spirit communications
senior web designer

Wow Rastin,
That's actually kind of cool, I think I like it ... I may hate consumerism, but if I was going to do it, this would be the way to go.

F